File talk:Reeperbahn on a spring afternoon 2022.jpg

Love hearts

Kritzolina There are multiple in this image. One in which is contained the works "Pink Palace" and the other one in blue with a black background to the right of it. There is another at the top as well. Helper201 (talk) 10:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, those are hearts, but they are commercial advertising for sex services, they are not love hearts. Kritzolina (talk) 12:33, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Kritzolina They are love hearts. What they are used for doesn't impact what they are. They clearly don't represent an anatomical heart. So, I ask, if they are not anatomical hearts, what are they? The non-realistic representation of the heart seen in this image is the love heart. There is no difference between these hearts and the common / standard love heart. If there is then please point out what that difference is between what is shown here and what you think a love heart is in comparison. Their usage places no impact upon what the symbol is. Helper201 (talk) 23:45, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, we might have different interpretations of what is a love heart, possibly due to different mother tongues. For me it feels deeply wrong to put this file in the category - could you respect this, that to me as the uploader this category is wrong? Kritzolina (talk) 05:17, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

For me it feels very wrong to exclude it from this category. Being this is an English language Wikimedia Commons platform I think we should go with what the English language view of a love heart is. I'm trying to be respectful here and have asked for the opinions of other editors by opening a request for comment below so we can hopefully get a general consensus view. Helper201 (talk) 17:48, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

No Sé eso pero estoy aqui para ayudarte 181.87.118.149 17:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Is what is shown in this image love hearts?

Pic

Is what is shown in this image love hearts? Helper201 (talk) 17:39, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Nosferattus (talk) 19:55, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

is it really important to put the image into that category? Kritzolina (talk) 19:58, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I would create a subcategory with "Love hearts used in advertisements" or even more specific "Love hearts promoting sexual services". GPSLeo (talk) 05:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

What even is a "love heart" as opposed to a regular heart symbol? Category:Love hearts has zero interwiki links, no description, nothing other than a French translation. The whole thing should probably be merged into Category:Heart symbols. As for the heart in question: I'd go for a more generic Category:Heart symbols in advertising and hook that into Category:Heart symbols. El Grafo (talk) 13:31, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I did not notice that. I expected Love hearts to be the category for this symbol. They are definitely redundant. GPSLeo (talk) 13:42, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

→ Cfd started. El Grafo (talk) 14:20, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Also created Category:Heart symbols in advertising and added the file to it. @Helper201: OK for you? El Grafo (talk) 15:00, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, that sounds a lot more appropriate to me. Kritzolina (talk) 15:09, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Great! (Sorry I forgot to ping you, also @GPSLeo: FIY) El Grafo (talk) 15:18, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

@El Grafo: I disagree. These symbols are love symbols. There are two types of heart imagery. The anatomical heart depicting the actual human organ, of which this symbol does not represent that, and the symbol seen in the photo which is a representation/symbol of love. Unless someone can provide evidence of a heart symbol depicting something other than love then this article should be categorised as depicting love hearts, as should all images with this symbol.

TLDR: Heart symbols of the type seen in this image which are not actual human hearts are love symbols. Therefore, there's no point having a category that tries to make out as if they are something other to this. Helper201 (talk) 20:21, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Then look at this image ... the meaning is clearly spelled out: File:Sustainable Development Goal 3.png Kritzolina (talk) 07:11, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Anatomical hearts are an entirely different thing that's categorized under Category:Heart (organ) (and Category:Heart (organ) in art). Everything in Category:Heart symbols is referring to en:Heart symbol, not en:Heart. El Grafo (talk) 07:14, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

@Kritzolina Granted in the image you linked there the symbol is used to represent an anatomical heart. However, that's clearly not what its being used for in this file, nor in the vast majority of instances. Helper201 (talk) 14:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@El Grafo I was trying to explain that this symbol is specifically NOT an anatomical heart. It shouldn't be categorised as anything other than a love heart. The user above has provided an image whereby it is used to represent an anatomical heart, but that is not what it is used to symbolise in the vast majority of cases/instances. And obviously the image/file in question that started this discussion - of which we are on the talk page of - its not being used to represent an anatomical heart. Helper201 (talk) 14:38, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Exactly my point! If it was and anatomical heart, it would go into Category:Heart (organ). But it is not, it shows the heart symbol "". Sometimes "" stands for love, sometimes it stands for health, sometimes for the number of lives left in a computer game, sometimes for sex, sometimes for the actual organ, and sometimes for other things, but it remains the same shape. The terms "heart symbol" and "love heart" refer to the same thing, so one of the categories is redundant. We could either move all files to Category:Heart symbols or move them all to Category:Love hearts, because they are for the same thing (as anatomical hearts and symbols that look like them go elsewhere).

Now, since "" can stand for so many things, and it is not always clear which meaning a particular instance refers to, it makes sense to go with Category:Heart symbols, as that is a neutral term that describes the shape "".

That is, by the way, exactly how Wikipedia handles the situation: en:Love heart simply redirects to en:Heart symbol. El Grafo (talk) 15:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

TL;DR: Meaning is subjective and depends on context, shape is neutral and objective – let's categorize by shape. El Grafo (talk) 15:11, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

+1 to everything El Grafo said. Kritzolina (talk) 17:33, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@El Grafo I think you've made a good case regarding other things this heart symbol can represent (I forgot about its use in gaming). Although I don't think it has a specific/unique use in regards to sex, I think that's just a love/affection symbol. Therefore, I think it’s actually better to keep love hearts a subcategory / category within "heart symbols". I'd like this discussion to return to its original point in regards to whether the symbol in the photo is a love heart, of which no evidence has been provided to the contrary. A wider discussion regarding categorisation should probably go elsewhere, but like I say after seeing the heart symbol's use in health and being reminded of its use in gaming I think it’s best to keep its categorisation as is. Helper201 (talk) 18:32, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

It does not represent love in this image, it represents sex. That is not the same thing Kritzolina (talk) 20:23, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Kritzolina, disagree. You have given absolutely no evidence to support such a claim or that this symbol is used in such a way to represent that specifically. Helper201 (talk) 23:42, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

It's advertising for the services of sex workers in the "Pink Palace", a brothel at the en:Reeperbahn – Germany's most famous en:Red-light district. Paying someone to have sexual intercourse with you has nothing to do with love. El Grafo (talk) 07:20, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

After reading this - how about you, User:Helper201, giving some evidence that this heart symbol represents love? Kritzolina (talk) 08:26, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree with El Grafo. The whole discussion is absolutely absurd. Prostitution does not have anything to do with love or love hearts. The picture itself is enough evidence for the representation of sex work, it specifically depicts the word "Sex" and is located directly to the infamous brothel "Zur Ritze" (ritze = pussy). It is absolutely inadequate to label this picture with the category "love hearts" or anything similar. I strongly object. Grizma (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

As it is you who wants the category "Love Heart" added, it is your duty to provide evidence that this heart symbol represents love (and only love). Fuchs B (talk) 09:37, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

+1 to @El Grafo: "Heart symbol" is a much better category than "Love Heart" - for this image and in general. "Love heart" is an interpretation of the symbol's meaning and therefore not following the principle of neutrality. The category "Love heart" should be deleted and the files in there put into the category "Heart symbol". Fuchs B (talk) 09:33, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

yes. The Symbol itself is a Love Heart. There is No need to Take Personal Opinions about Sexwork into judging Wether its a Love Heart or Not. And perhaps the Heart Here Stands die "all the people who Love Sex". So its a Love Heart ;) Senzefrau (talk) 09:17, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

No one brought up any personal opinions about sex work. We are just trying to differentiate between love and sex, as those are two different things, that sometimes happen at the same time, but usually not at places like the Pink Palace. The heart here is used for advertising sex - this is clear from the picture itself. Where do you get the part about love? Kritzolina (talk) 10:07, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

User:Kritzolina, honestly, asking for evidence that this symbol represents love seems to fall under "You don't need to cite that the sky is blue", but here it is anyway:

• https://www.dictionary.com/e/emoji/heart-symbol/

"Since the 2010s, as noted, emoji have become so widespread that many are more likely to type a heart-based emoji than its predecessor <3 (or ♡)."

"<3 and heart emoji can be used to express love or affection for a person or fondness for some event or content. Like the heart symbol, <3 can stand for the word love or heart, e.g., I <3 New York."

• https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5pKMTzBn2GYd4Cjlm4rKnB7/matters-of-the-heart-where-does-the-symbol-come-from

"But is there any way to link this tradition with our own concept of the love heart?" (Have a look at the symbol used throughout this BBC article above).

• Why Do We Associate Love With The Heart?

(See the article above in general).

• https://www.history.com/news/what-is-the-origin-of-the-heart-symbol

"The heart shape is recognized the world over as a symbol of romantic love and affection"

Helper201 (talk) 02:48, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, all that is proof that this shape CAN represent love and often does so. But there are exceptions, where it represents other things, as in gaming, the image I linken and so on. So where do you get that it represents love in this image? Kritzolina (talk) 06:37, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Love is by far the most common use of the symbol. That much is obvious. You have provided absolutely no evidence that the symbol represents something other than love in this image. The few cases where it represents something other to love are exceptions to the rule. Helper201 (talk) 17:53, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

We don't need to handle exceptions at all if we simply stick to objective criteria that are not up for interpretation – i.e.: shape rather than perceived meaning. El Grafo (talk) 14:03, 26 September 2023 (UTC)